My overwhelming impulse is to take her by the shoulders and scream in her face Get your goddamn tubes tied right now, but being pro-choice means accepting others’ reproductive decisions without trying to impose my own.
But oh how I wish I could do that, or barring that I wish I could march her to the nearest Planned Parenthood clinic so that this pregnancy could be terminated immediately because to be perfectly honest that’s what I’ve wished for her to choose with each and every pregnancy she’s fallen into since the first. If you’re counting (and who wouldn’t be, as it is as horrifyingly fascinating as the worst tales of bodily oddities), she’s been pregnant five times in the past six years and has been able successfully to parent none of the resultant children.
None of them.
“I know a couple,” said the mother of N’s latest child when once she’d been filled in on this most recent development. “They’re a great couple, a Christian couple, and they’ve been trying for so long …”
Oh dear god, I thought through the phone. Please stop talking. Please stop talking right now.
She didn’t stop. “I know they’d love to have this baby. Do you think I should tell N. about them and see what she thinks?”
No! I said, and I’m sure my voice was not kind. You cannot talk to her about potential adoptive parents until she’s decided what she wants to do. She could decide to terminate the pregnancy 1 . Or she might decide to try to parent. If she eventually decides to place the baby, that’s when you can bring up your friends. Not before. And I swore to myself that if she disregarded my warning I would add her to my list of People To Yell At or turn her into the Adoption Police or at least be very, very angry.
Because very, very angry is what I am about every aspect of this situation. Not that my emotions much matter. I am pro-choice — most days even stoically pro-choice — so I will hold my tongue while N. sorts out her plans for this pregnancy, and once done I’ll lend support no matter what her choice.
- Would you be surprised to know that it is possible to hear indignant bristling through a phone line? [↩]
I had the opportunity, earlier this year, to chat with a medical professional on this subject. This particular woman works in a clinic that serves a population that is, if anything, even less well equipped than N to parent a child. Frequently they are habitual drug users and many of these patients have pregnancy after pregnancy.
The woman to whom I was speaking told me she counsels her patients as best she can, with particular emphasis on methods of birth control that do not require active steps. On one occasion, after suggesting depo-provera to a chronic IV drug user after her fifth pregnancy, the patient informed her there was no way she was going to put that sh*t into her body.
I truly admire your (and her) ability to hold your tongue under such circumstances. I seriously doubt I would have the same restraint.
I have had this same conversation with her. Many times.
If I may ask – what is N’s issue with birth control? Because I can’t picture why someone would choose to be pregnant, give birth, and then parent *none* of their children over using some birth control. This confuses me.
If I knew the answer to this question — if *she* knew the answer to this question — she wouldn’t continue to put herself in the same situation again and again and again.
Oye. I mean, even if asking her partner to wear a condom is too much, she could get something like depo or an IUD and not even have to think about it. Ah, I are confuse.
It’s been suggested. Many, many times.
Ah well, she’ll do what she will. Though I’d rather deal with bc than be preggers w/o planning it. But that is me.
Ultimately, what are the negative consequences for her if she gets pregnant?
She has to deal with the pain of being pregnant, giving birth, and placing yet another child.
Perhaps I’m simply coming at the same conclusion from a different angle here, but while there are a number of very good reasons to to be confrontational with her about this (pretty much all of them having to do with the children you are raising), I’m not sure how far up the scale being ‘pro-choice’ ranks, if at all: I believe strongly that it is everyone’s right, legally, to make their own reproductive choice, but it does not follow that I believe that everyone of those choices are wise, well-considered or unharmful. Some of those choices, frankly, are stupid and (not-just-self-)destructive, and it’s okay to occasionally voice that judgment.
I have been confrontational with her — when she’s NOT pregnant and when there’s some hope of her staying not pregnant. What in the world would be the point of yelling at her once she’s already pregnant? What would that solve?
Seriously, what would that solve?
Nothing at all: I just think that the good reasons for not doing it have little or nothing to do with pro-choice politics.
I’m probably about to open a can of worms here, but while I understand you respecting her reproductive rights, I guess I don’t understand why you seem to be so fiercely protecting her from her own bad decisions…. to the point of cneeding to control what other people can or cannot say to her?
I don’t need to control what other people in general can or cannot say to her. But specifically, when she’s at the point of making a decision about what to do with this particular pregnancy, she gets the same consideration any other pregnant woman would get, which is to make her own choice without being guilted or pressured by someone else’s needs, wants or religious beliefs.
The fact that she’s been in multiple inconvenient and unwise pregnancies does NOT mean that other people get to bully her, and if those other people ask my opinion about if that bullying is appropriate, you’d better believe I’m going to tell them that it’s not.
The abortion stuff in America is genocide, targeting Unborns, straight up murder of Pre-Borns. Have you ever been in a womb before, what, were you a test tube baby? You did not get killed in the womb, why are u trying to kill someone that is in a womb, why don’t you treat people that are in wombs the same way that you got treated while you were in a womb, you got to live, so let others live too. Unborns with their horses front legs up in the air, statuesque, sometimes tossed into clinic dumpsters, no proper burial, disrespected, sometimes American Unborns’ body parts are sold like merchandise, no respect for life, sickening. Some nazi junk, like 1940′s Germans targeting Jews, modern Democrats targeting Pre-Born American babies.
President Blaisdell 1-20-21, 1+20=21, I’m talkin governing in 2021, running in 2020, but flying aboard Marine One 1/20/Twenty21, hit up Andrews Air Base for some Golf, I’ll let my Secret Service agents play too, have a 20some, foursome is too puny.
What
The
Fuck.
Dude, get a grip.
BWAHAHAHAHA.
Poe? Because I mean, really?
I think there’s a very, very fine line between being adamantly pro-choice (something I believe in as well, so don’t get me wrong here), and becoming an enabler.
Let me rephrase, as enabler might cause hackles to come up.
Every time this woman makes this mistake (granted, I am on the very, very far side of outside on this), you are there to give her support. Friends that are like family DO this. It’s what is natural.
But if, for instance, this was some sort skin-popping drug habit… And she kept using dirty needles, kept getting high, year after year… At what point would you stop telling her that ‘life isn’t shit, you don’t need the drugs, people DO love you’ and begin disconnecting yourself from that atom-bomb waiting to go off?
Not the best analogy, but it just seems like YOU get to go through hell. Utter and complete f’ing hell every time she gets a bit of semen wrapped around an egg, and she gets… your love and support.
I GET being pro-choice, but this seems to be a self-destructive pattern for her. And it drags you down. At what point will you say: ‘Hey, this is really f’ing me up. My emotions, my head space, and really important parts of my life… I should step back and evaluate what REALLY needs to be said to her? And if she does fully realize the hell and misery and stress she causes by not using a rubber, or an injection, or SOMETHING… then WHY does she cause it?’
I don’t know. I try to be supportive, I try to be loving to those I am close to, but I guess I just have limits. I’m quite disconnected from my mother because she has crossed my limits many, many times in the last few years.
I guess, in summation, I’m sorry that YOU have to through such misery because someone close to you is, by my ethics teacher’s definition of the word, an idiot. That definition being the one in which they just keep doing the same thing, day in and day out, wondering why nothing ever changes.
Where do you draw the line in giving support to save your own sanity, though?
Wishing the best for you, in the end,
~Mikki
(Apologies if people think I’m a total bitch, I tend to be a bit blunt.)
You summed up my feelings on this pretty well. N is about as self destructive as they come but for Aag she is family … but family who does need some kind of intervention as she does seem to make babies as if addicted to pregnancy. So while no one can force her to get her tubes tied or go on birth control – the advice that perhaps so many pregnancies is not healthy for her or her children or society isn’t infringing on her rights in any way.
“the advice that perhaps so many pregnancies is not healthy for her or her children or society”
I’ve given this advice. Everyone close to her has given her this advise. NO ONE is telling her that this is a good idea.
Although looking at it from N’s point of view. When she’s pregnant she’s needed and “popular” and has lots of people looking out for her, taking care of her and trying to impress her. I bet that has a lot of pull for her. Its likely the most power she’s ever wielded in her life.
Agreed.
I guess not everyone who’s commented on here has read your previous posts about N.
Firstly, you’ve told her many times after each and every one of her pregnancies that this is not good for her and not good for her children and that she should be looking for long-term birth control that she doesn’t have to think about.
Secondly, she is the birth mother of some of your children as well as a member of your family (I think that’s right?) and a friend, your children know this and have contact with her, and because of that you simply do not have the option of cutting yourself off from her, even if that was something that you might consider in different circumstances.
In the circumstances, you’re stuck with giving her good advice when she’s not pregnant and looking out for her when she is. I get it. You are a good person.
(that’s not to say that I wouldn’t be 100% behind you if you did decide that enough was enough – I’m just saying I can entirely understand why you don’t feel able to in the circumstances)
She is the mother of two of my children. She’s not related by blood to anyone else but them, but she’s a member of the family nonetheless.
We could cut her loose completely, but I am not convinced that would be the best thing for the children who love her so much.
“Where do you draw the line in giving support to save your own sanity, though?”
Yeah, I’m way past this point. Totally.
I’m sorry you have to go through this again. I wish there was some magic answer, or magic words that would help her see what she’s doing.
And seriously? I can’t imagine being pregnant for 45 months out of the last 6 years. That’s crazy.
Though, i wonder if maybe it’s a hormone thing/ She’s gotten so sued to the swings while pregnant that anything less feels… somehow wrong? Or unbalanced.
Meh, Maybe doing this makes N’ happy in some way. She knows she can’t keep them, raise them, give them the life most of us want for our children, but by 5 pregnancies I have to say she’s getting a kick out of it. It’s feeding something inside of her. To the rest of us, its as though she’s blind, and we can’t figure out why she chooses to stay blind. Outwardly this is just another uh-uh, but catch me if I’m wrong here–you may as well let that friend talk to her about those parents. Well, or you could just take another off her hands. Cuz I honestly think…yeah..her feel good hormones have kicked in from child donation. *shrugs* Just a thought. *Is shaking her head, and turnin’ off the ‘puter*
“Well, or you could just take another off her hands.”
No. Not going to happen.
Johnny, you might want to take a break from the weed dude. Just sayin….
Pro-choice means supporting and facilitating all choices. Good for you for clearing space around N to let her make her own decisions. No matter how any of us might feel about those choices (just the idea of the frequency of the pregnancies has me squirming) she’s still able to decide what to do with her body and, as evidenced by previous actions, what to do to get her children sufficient care. Have you, or someone else, discussed her options with her regarding this latest pregnancy? From what you’ve said of N, she might need help sorting out and acting on options (as any of us would, really) but, like you, I believe the choice is ultimately hers.
The question of “choice” raises everyone’s hackles these days. I really like the pro-voice stance of a post-abortion support organization in California (www.4exhale.org); the support Exhale gives is not based on political stance or moral judgement, but on the belief that every woman’s experience should get a voice. As much as most of us cringe at N’s situation, she’s still a human being like all of us, and a woman like some of us.
It’s a fine line to walk, and I don’t envy you.
I agree with Lizzie. Its clear that pregnancy makes N happy in some way. She feels special. She feels valued. Even if she has to go through the torture of giving up child after child…not being able to parent her own children…whatever it is, this is filling some NEED for her. And yeah, it is her choice. AAG is right. We have to respect and support her reproductive choices, no matter what.
But I do think it is okay to start in on the adoption talk already, though. Really. I mean, AAG and others have already given her the birth control talk to no avail. So, fine: as much as I shudder at the thought of this young woman as a breeder for earnest Christian couples…maybe that is what she is. Maybe that is what she perceives herself to be, and wants to be, wrong or right. Can she parent this child? Should she? Does she even want to? Does she get off on giving the gift of life to childless couples?
I do think she is “addicted” to getting pregnant.
Sorry you have to go through this again, AAG.
Maybe she doesn’t realize (N, that is), that the little kidlet can give you that love/special feeling (when you’re not stepping on legos, or trying to avoid pulling your hair out :p). I get tired, frustrated, annoyed, irritated – like any other parent, but then there’s that *moment*, when you’re just about done in, and it clicks. There’s a smile, or that cute sleeping face or something and you just kind of melt inside. And you savor it. And suddenly everything seems that much better for those moments.
Then you find a small stuffed animal half-flushed down the toilet. *facepalm*
The time for “the adoption talk” is very soon, but not until *after* she’s decided if she even wants the pregnancy to continue.
aag – I just want to say I get where you are coming from, and I support you. She is an adult, she is legally able to make these decisions, and as much as it sucks in a free society, beating her down while she is pregnant is not going to help anything.
Compassion does not have a shelf life.
Upon rereading my comment I realize that by bringing up the post-abortion support organization it might be perceived that I’m advocating abortion…what I am advocating is that every person’s experience be seen as valuable and unique. as Kate says (and AAG herself has said in the past) becoming pregnant seems to fill a need for N. And again, as much as many of us may not like her choices, I for one am happy that she at least has the support of AAG and others. Many do not and struggle alone.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that it’s her choice and she deserves the full spectrum of options and the space in which to make it. I think I might go a step further than the people who think she gets some “kick” out of being pregnant. N seems like a woman who, through her own choices, is living a hard life. People who love her and want her to have an easier, clearer, maybe even more satisfying, life keep nudging her. They give advice, assistance, a smack on the behind, everything they can think of to get her on a constructive path. So I just wonder, does she feel like everyone is always pressuring her to change, to make different choices, to work harder until she gets pregnant. But when she’s pregnant everyone backs off an lets her be for a while, let’s her make her own choice and do her own thing and they pay her only the kind of attention that she wants, rather than when she’s not pregnant she gets some of the attention she wants and some of the attention she needs. Does that make sense? I don’t know her or you except from this space so there’s surely a lot more to it but it suddenly struck me that maybe, even unconsciously, she’s choosing to buy herself a window of no pressure to live up to her potential (or quit torturing the rest of you) by getting pregnant.
Good luck with this one. It’s unimaginably hard. I’m so sorry.
Wait a minute… didn’t she just give birth not that long ago?
I am, quite frankly, stunned.
But I do agree – she must be able to make her choice without pressure from others.
Well, it might be her choice. But in many cases it’s someone else in the family – the gramdmother, mostly – who ends up doing the majority of the raising and mothering and doctoring that’s required for these children.
Is that your choice?
Hell no. I am *done* having children!
I read all this and I’m reminded of the old adage that people don’t change unless they *want* to. It sounds like you and many other people have shown her the options, explained to her the consequences… and she keeps doing it even with this information.
After that, there aren’t any options left for what *more* you can do that don’t involve either forcing her to do something or abandoning her, but who could live with that kind of solution?
Exactly. The only options left are for my response.
on a different vein of thought….I wonder how this is (or will) affect N’s biological children. She is continually giving birth to “siblings” that they may (or may not) ever know. I don’t know the history so I’m throwing this out there as food for thought…
Yeah, that’s the thing that gets me. I want them to grow up knowing each other, but I can’t even get that accomplished with the current number. :(
I’m wondering if she ever considers what kind of message she (and her multiple careless pregnancies) is sending to your daughters?
Yeah, I wonder that too.
It sounds like, to me, that many of the comments run the “why are you enabling her/why aren’t you condemning her/why haven’t you reasoned with her/why can’t you stop her” gamut. Obviously, as you point out multiple times, you have tried to reason with her. But there’s nothing rational about her actions. I was a case manager for parents of children with developmental delays, and I had moms with five or six children, most of whom they could not support…yet, they often became pregnant again. There were different reasons why, and often, no reasons at all. Obviously, this is not the best situation for anyone involved — children, bio parent, adoptive parents, etc. It’s painful to watch and to think about the repercussions to everyone involved.
But I really respect you for recognizing that as much as you cannot condone or understand her actions, you respect that being pro-choice means that it’s not your choice to make. You didn’t condone her unprotected sex, and you’ve made it clear you tried to offer any help, education, or assistance she might need in preventing pregnancy. But it seems like some of the comments infantalize her by implying “why can’t you stop her from doing this?” — because she’s an adult. No one can tie her down and force her to take birth control. No one can force her to stop having children.
You’ve done your best. I hope we can support you in working through the frustration and pain of watching this situation play out over and over again, while you stand on the outside.
You understand my stance and my frustration. Thank you.