Kat asks:
My partner and I are planning to go to our first kinky play party next weekend, and we’re very excited to explore as a couple. The problem is that we have a friend who is also planning to attend for the first time – a friend who we do not want to get to know any better. The friend, on the other hand, has expressed more than once that he’s had fantasies involving us. Until now, we’ve just brushed those comments off, but the nature of the event we’re all planning to attend makes that response difficult; clearly, it’s time to set some boundaries. We want him to have fun, and we know that incidental sightings are inevitable, but we don’t want to play with our friend, and we don’t want him watching us if we choose to play. (He’s very much into exh/voy, and my partner and I both get a “creepy” feeling from the idea of him watching.)
Our friend has historically had difficulty recognizing boundaries, is almost hyper-sensitive to rejection, and definitely does not respond to hints. How can we set clear boundaries with him, without ruining anyone’s good time? Have you or any of your readers ever had to deal with this kind of awkwardness at a pervy party? Are we worrying for no good reason? Help!
I’ve got to say that your friend sounds like an extraordinarily bad candidate for attendance at a kinky play party. I’m not sure how best to advise you so I’ll leave it up to my readers.
Readers, what say you about Kat’s situation?
I’d like to ask a question back:
Do you want to be “The people who brought the creepy guy to the party?”
If YOU do not want awkward, creepy vibes around when you play, why on EARTH would you think anyone else would want that?!
You are deliberately bringing someone you DO NOT FULLY TRUST into what some people in the BDSM & Leather community consider to be sacred sexual space. Still others rely on a play party to be a safe, welcoming space. And on a basic level? BDSM, Leather and kink has TRUST at the core.
Your friend sounds as though he is absolutely the “Walking Wanker” type, often referred to as “Energy Vampires:” people who pull focus and give nothing back to the spirit and passion of a party.
If YOU’RE uncomfortable with the guy, have the balls & ovaries to tell him what the deal is. Be HONEST. Be compassionate be adults. Learn to be GOOD stewards of OUR community.
If you cannot communicate well something as basic as this, you may well find that the intensity, nuance, subtlety and complex nature of negotiations and boundaries will be LOT for you to navigate. This is an EXCELLENT opportunity for you to practice being good members of te community, and being straightforward and honest.
AND maintaining boundaries.
Mollena Williams
International Ms Leather 2010
Do you want to be “The people who brought the creepy guy to the party?”
Excellent point.
Very true, but it seems like these people are simply going to be at the party with their creepy friend/guy they know. I have that happen quite a bit – knowing lots of people, some of them happen to be creepers who I wouldn’t want to touch with a stolen dick. Doesn’t mean I brought ‘em there, or that everyone agrees with my assessment of them.
That is the case. If we had our ‘druthers, we’d prefer he not show up at all. He just responded to the same event invite on FetLife. We’re certainly not going to show up together.
He’s a decent friend for playing board games or watching movies, but not one we want in our playspace.
A very good point if they’re going together, although it sounds like maybe he just happens to also be going?
As stated below, we’re not bringing him, specifically. The rest of your advice is good, though: this is a situation that we need to figure out how to navigate. Thank you. :)
Well it sounds like you are attending the party independent of going together? If this is correct you could talk to him and say that your particular interest as a couple does not involve playing with people that you know well. As far as him watching or being a voyeur, well you can’t stop someone fro watching if that’s part of the party environment.
That is correct. He happened to see and RSVP to the same event. Thanks for the advice; that makes sense. :)
I wouldn’t do that, because 1) it’s not true and 2) if you do find someone you know whom you want to play with, he’ll see it’s not true. I’d go the open route of telling him you don’t wish to play, but that doesn’t solve the voyeurism problem. If he does get in your space while you’re playing, whichever of you is the top in that situation to say “Hey Ken, we’re feeling a little self-conscious because it’s our first play party. We’d like to have a little privacy right now.” Or something.
Also–the “first play party” experience is stressful hell. It’s scary in a way it doesn’t need to be, but in my experience, it’s always nerve-wracking. We were told that it’s a good idea NOT to play at your first play party, but just to watch. I don’t think you have to do that, but as with most things kinky, if it’s your first time, I’d err on the side of “less is more”.
“can say”, not “to say”.
How important is your friendship to this person? Maybe a creep who doesn’t respect boundaries isn’t a friend worth keeping.
Phew, that is a bit of a sticky one. I’ve definitely known people like that and been in similar situations. I think AAG is right that your friend might not be a good candidate this kind of party at all, but if that’s true then he’ll probably find it out on his own. Hopefully there are good moderators in case his behavior is out of hand.
In my experience so far, the best thing to do is be clear and honest but gentle. Anytime I haven’t been explicit, either by just trying to avoid the issue or giving subtle hints, it seems to end up hurting the person’s feelings more. I guess they feel hopeful for longer and so it’s an even greater letdown when they’re persistent and then there’s the inevitable clear rejection. I also think it’s harder to calmly and humanely reject someone when I’ve been trying to send them signals and they’re not responding and it’s making me uncomfortable.
It’s every person’s responsibility to set their own boundaries and the responsibility of others to respect them. Everyone also has to take care of their own feelings. That doesn’t excuse being rude or mean, but it does mean that it’s not your fault if the fact that you don’t want to play with him hurts his feelings. Nobody’s going to be compatible with everyone they take a fancy to, nobody has a right to play with anyone who gives them a hard on, and just to be cliche about it there are plenty of other fish in the sea.
If you’re going to see your friend before this party, I’d pull him aside and say something along the lines of “I’m glad to hear you’re coming to the party, I’m hoping you have a really great time. In the interest of clarity and fair warning, I just wanted to let you know that my partner and I don’t want to play with you. I’m sure that there will be plenty of other people who’d like to.” If you’re not going to see him, you could do a phone call or even an email if you want extra time to figure out the wording and to allow him to read it without having to let you witness his disappointment. I know that written rejections can seem cold, but I think depending on the person it can also be face-saving and therefore a kindness.
There might not be any way to set a boundary without hurting his feelings somewhat, but if you can be the kindest you can while still respecting your own needs and keeping your boundaries intact, then I think that’s the most you could ask of anyone. I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you. That seems like sound advice, and the wording help is especially appreciated. :)
Excellent word choices, I am totally stealing that line and passing it on to several folks I know in similar situations.
Sadly, the only way to deal with this is to tell them flat out. I’m working up the nerve myself to tell a man I don’t want to play with him – several years of avoidance, running away, and vague mentions of lack of interest haven’t done a damn thing. Even attending events with my collared boy/friend hasn’t done it. But I can see why it gets difficult – he’s a nice man, and rather friendly, and I don’t *want* to hurt his feelings – I just don’t want to play with him and wish he would stop asking.
So I feel their pain, and understand why sometimes just saying ‘No, thank you’ can be hard.
(Oddly enough, I’m not always this polite dealing with strangers, and do expect that I at times inadvertantly hurt their feelings. But in the small kink scene, it gets more loaded for some reason.)
Thanks for the sympathy. I’m glad to know that other people are dealing with the same thing.
So much good advice already! Thank you all so much for bending your minds toward our predicament. :)
I think you’re right, AAG, that he’s not the type of person who should be attending play parties. Unfortunately, telling him that straight out doesn’t seem like the best way to deal with that – seems like that’s a conclusion he should make on his own. Meanwhile, my partner and I are working out how to be honest but not harsh about our disinterest.
I’ll admit that I have no personal experience at a play party of any sort, but it seems to me that respecting boundaries, picking up on hints, and dealing with rejection are even more important at such an event than at more vanilla social events, and if even his _friends_ think he’s a little bit creepy, I suspect he’s going to have to deal with rejection.
Is this the sort of situation where you might want to contact the organizers? It’s possible that they might be able to find someone to keep your friend occupied. Though if it’s a more intimate event, you may want to be prepared to be called on to help your friend in a more friend-like context.
If the party happens to be at a hotel, just pick your prospective playmates and go back to your own room for a bit…
How about notifying the host of the party and expressing your concerns about this guy? If there are any issues at the party you can let the host know and let them deal with his creepiness.
But before that I would be adamantly telling him its not going to happen. And that if any advances would jeopardize your friendship. There is nothing wrong with telling him that you are not attracted to him. Make him think you consider him a brother or something.. ya know someone you hide in the attic.. LOL
My response echoes what a lot of the others here have said already.
You really just need to not bring him with you!!! If he makes you that uncomfortable, chances are those feelings will just be magnafied if you bring him with you to this party.
You will both end up not having a good time, and may make others there resent you for bringing this guy with you.
Tell him straight out that you don’t feel comfortable bringing him with you!!!! Because you both are just not attracted to him that way!!!!
Sorry! I just now realized that he RSVP’ed separately to this event!!! Well you have received excellent advice!!!
Just go and have fun and I hope that this guy will find someone to play with, so much so that he won’t even be thinking about you two!!!
I’ve been disappointed when someone didn’t want to play with me but the only time I found it hurtful was when someone I considered a good friend failed to be direct with me. I’d suggest POLITELY explaining your feelings, as it affects you directly. That you enjoy his comradery but don’t wish to play with him, and that having him ogling you at a party would make you uncomfortable and potentially affect wanting to socialize with him in ways you do enjoy.
As it’s his first party, perhaps an overview of do’s and donts from friends would be appreciated.
I realize you’re not going as a group, however offering to introduce him to a few people (especially the hosts if you know them) would serve to acclimate him, widen the pool of people he will interact with beyond yourselves, and let others know it’s his first time.
I’m not really involved in the play party scene, but I feel like this situation has less to do with that and more to do with the fact that this friend makes the person writing the letter uncomfortable. Plain and simple. I agree with what someone said earlier: is it really worth it having a friend like that?
If you can’t talk about not wanting to play with them, it would still be useful to just tell him that his comments about fantasizing about the couple are unwanted. I’m sure that burden alone is weighing heavily on their minds. Plus, anyone who keeps making comments like that without taking a hint won’t just simmer off, they’ll get more and more blatant until something has to be done. Might as well do it now.
It can be difficult because it’s a fine line to navigate. You don’t want to be mean, but you also don’t want to leave any room for miscommunication. I think something along the lines of “We enjoy your friendship in a non-sexual way and don’t wish for our relationship with you to be anything but. Your comments make us uncomfortable because we do not see you that way. We’d like to stay friends but it will be hard to do that if you can’t respect our boundaries.”