Yesterday we looked at a letter sent in by Xavier, who is concerned about his pornography viewing. Take a moment to read or reread it now along with the very thoughtful comments, will you?
Perhaps what worries me the most in your letter, Xavier, is the idea that you are objectifying the women about whom you fantasize. Here’s something to think about, an example gleaned from the countless hours I’ve spent looking at porn and the remarks users leave on porn sites. I have a certain fascination with performers who choose to leave their body hair natural. Check out these pictures, for instance, of a shoot done with Jiz Lee and Syd Blakovich.
After viewing the shoot one user commented, “I got off several times while watching it! The women were hot. Love the gender bendiness. Love the hair. Love the chemistry.” Another said, “The hair really throws you for a minute, then its like, that’s different, mix it up some.”
A third viewer said, “Not at all into the hair under arms and on legs or around the butthole–yack. Jiz is attractive enough but I can’t get past the personal grooming… if you could clean her up Jiz would be interesting to see again.”
Do you see the difference in these comments? While all three viewers mention the performers’ grooming choices, the first two focus on the shoots as a whole. They demonstrate respect for the the differences shown by the actors. In contrast, the third viewer seems to believe that the actor is just a thing which needs to be cleaned up by some invisible outside force in order to be personally pleasing to him (or her; I think the name stated was male but on the internet who really knows?). The first two viewers enjoyed the porn without objectifying the performers. The last showed by his comments that he saw the actors as only objects to be used for his pleasure.
Nevertheless, I’m not really sure that it matters. Alexa from The Real Princess Diaries says:
[Xavier's] not using the women – he’s using the video, which is not the same thing. If he had the women themselves (the daughters, sisters, etc.) and used them physically, THEN his point would be valid.
Some women, myself included, have absolutely no problem with someone objectifying me. Even during the most loving sex between two monogamous, committed lovers, objectification occurs during sex to one degree or another. It would only be a problem if the entire relationship was based on some type of objectifying construct.
Dear Xavier, any woman you see in a reputable, legal porn (and that’s the only kind I’m referring to here) consents for you to watch and get off on her images. Each one made a conscious choice to be photographed and then to have that work viewed by a wide audience. I can’t imagine that they care very much one way or the other how you feel about them personally, as long as their work brings you a certain brand of below-the-belt joy.
Think about it this way: Do you feel compelled to know the loves of your grocery store cashier? The fears of your bus driver? The joys of your mail carrier? The concerns of the person who reads the weather? You might be interested in them (for whatever reason), but you are not expected to be personally involved in their lives. They provide a service — a service for which they are compensated — and you gratefully accept the work and time that went into that service. That’s the end of the transaction. You owe no more degree of personal involvement to porn performers than you do to the workers mentioned above.
I have to wonder, Xavier, if you feel the same guilt when you admire talented mainstream actresses or the models who pose for Sports Illustrated. Surely you’ve entertained some small fantasies of these women? If there’s not the same degree of guilt associated with those thoughts, ask yourself why. You don’t have to believe what you’ve been told. You don’t have to believe that all porn is evil.
Diva says, “I think overall [Xavier] has a lot of personal hang ups about sex, porn and the shame he feels from it that has nothing to do with the women involved in it but I would suspect more with his background and upbringing.”
Finally, Debauched Domestic Diva suggests that those with more questions on this topic should check out the Sex Work Awareness website. Consider making a donation or participating in the NYC Sex Bloggers Calendar project in order to help raise awareness about the issues facing sex workers.
Readers, please chime in. What else can we tell Xavier in order to ease his troubled mind?
I used to have a lot of hang-ups about porn and sex. I think part of that is cultural background and learned shame. It’s taken me years to “get over” it, reading about sexuality and gender, and going through periods of experimentation and evolution.
I’m in my earlyish thirties and I’m so glad that I’ve taken a journey of self-discovery about my own sexuality and gender issues. It’s made me more confident, a stronger person. I’m more aware of the situations where I find objectification of myself acceptable versus situations where it is unacceptable, and, in turn, the situations when it is ok for me to objectify others.
I know that my lover enjoys it when I use him for my own satisfaction. He has told this to me *multiple* times. I objectify him, to use him as my sexual plaything, and he enjoys “being of service”. However, it’s just one small part of our relationship, part of the variety of encounters we have (physical, emotional, intellectual) that keeps our relationship pleasurable, stimulating, satisfying, and both of us tremendously happy.
“It would only be a problem if the entire relationship was based on some type of objectifying construct.”
And even then there are pleased, consenting couples living in situations where this is a basis for a relationship (See 24 hour BDSM lifestylers, Hugh Hefner).
The biggest thing here (and you hit it on the head) is consent! There is pornography being made with dubious or nonexistent consent; upskirt, girls gone drunk, other illegal porn, but those categories are definitely avoidable.
I think what Xavier is having trouble with, what is causing him guilt, is that he is conceptualizing women as essentially non-sexual creatures who would find being viewed sexually problematic. I think we can (and will) fairly effectively refute this notion that women are non-sexual beings. He is also tying porn performers’ experience up with his wife and daughter’s experience which is also a fine source of guilt.
I find it interesting, and a little sad, that Xavier feels all this guilt about the pornograpy that he views, but still continues to view it. If his feelings were really that strong, surely his first instinct would be to stop viewing it. Instead he views it, then comes here, to a rather saucy blog, to talk about viewing it.
I wonder if the discussion is part of the overall erotic experience for him – as if discussing the pornography after viewing it is somehow extending the high.
It also reminds me of those “family values” politicians who are later found out to be engaging in the activities that they publicly condemn.
It’s all a little sad and hypocritical, to me.
“Rather saucy”
Ha!
You made my day, Damian. :)
He ISN’T objectifying ‘real people’. He’s enjoying IMAGES of CHARACTERS on a screen that are created FOR that very purpose. Any performer (woman or man) who willingly makes a porn film and doesn’t want the audience to enjoy it, to use it to masturbate, and/or fantasize about it/them would be an idiot. That’s what they’re being paid for – they’re INVITING, BEGGING you to only notice the sexual parts of them. Chances are that the image you see on the screen bears little to no resemblance to the ‘real person’ portraying them anyway.
It’s not any more wrong to masturbate to porn stars than it is to drool over Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie in a movie, or to cry while watching Meryl Streep, or to envy Maya Angelou, or to cheer for Lance Armstrong, or to laugh at Will Ferrell (except that he isn’t that funny). If you don’t do it, they don’t get paid or hired again, and can’t feed their families, or do all the other things that they do when they are being ‘real people’.
A lot of the people (especially so-called feminists, IMO) who oppose porn simply feel threatened by it because a) they feel like their own average bodies and skills don’t measure up to the sexy ones on the screen; b) they’re afraid that their partners won’t want THEM in the same way, or c) they’re afraid that their partners WILL want them in the same way. That ISN’T feminism – it’s fear. Real feminism is allowing a woman to have the freedom and power to pursue whatever SHE wants, even if you don’t personally agree or approve. If that means she makes porn, so be it – her body, her choice. The power to turn a man on and get him off is a wonderful one to have, for a woman who wants it. Those who don’t can dress and behave accordingly.
If Xavier’s expecting or demanding that his wife or daughters, or any other woman, behave like the images on the porn screen – OR trying to control what they do with their own bodies (when they are of legal age) – THEN he’s a pig with a problem. Sounds to me like he’s just parroting SOMEONE ELSE who thinks he SHOULD feel guilty for watching porn – to ease SOMEONE ELSE’S troubled mind. My guess is that he came here knowing exactly what you (and we) would say, so you/we would write a good retort for him.
Be sure to give credit where it’s due, Xavier. Using someone else’s images with permission or acknowledgment isn’t wrong. Using someone else’s words without it IS.
I don’t agree with your analysis of why *some* feminists don’t like porn.
As I understand it their main criticisms are: a) the women involved are being coerced and b) men will treat their real-life partners the same way they see women being treated in porn.
“In contrast, the third viewer seems to believe that the actor is just a thing which needs to be cleaned up by some invisible outside force in order to be personally pleasing to him ”
I have to disagree with this. I think maybe the comment could have been worded better, but I don’t think there’s any “obejectification” going when someone says a certain look or style doesn’t appeal to them, but might under different circumstances.
I don’t like the unshaven “scruffy” look – but I think that Matt McConaughey is hot when he’s clean shaven. OTOH, maybe that does mean I’m objectifying MM. I dunno. :)
this was a really, really great two-parter.
thank you.