aag

This is beautiful, and helped me find some clarity on some other thoughts I had today. Thank you for sharing. :)

i second Amalthea’s comment - you summed it up beautifully.

With regards to my husband, my partner and me, it took nearly a year for me to figure out that it didn’t help to pretend my secondary relationship was unimportant. Instead of making my marriage more stable, it made things more dramatic. Once i learned to acknowledge how much i had invested in my partner everything got easier - i was being dishonest in trivializing what he meant to me, which left me feeling conflicted without understanding why. Admitting my feelings brought balance back to my marriage and i was able to be a better partner to both of them.

This is something I’ve been slowly coming to realize. After I lost the man I thought was the love of my life over a similar issue I’ve pained over this. Really and truly. Honesty has turned into the thing I am most proud of in my relationship now and honoring each other’s feelings. You’re right that we can’t set these boundaries for our partners or even ourselves.

It is a pity that we all look at romantic love as so different from other types of love and affection. My love for my sibling does not stop me from loving my father. But it is hard to feel that you aren’t number one to the person that you see that way. When all is said and done, the pain can be more about reciprocity than jealousy. But it can still be toxic.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.

This is a subject that I can intellectualize but have not been able to make peace with. Many years ago, when my partner and I discussed the possibility of sex with other people, I said I could deal with a situation where we went someplace together, had sex with others and went home together. The idea of “one on one” sex to me is playing with Pandora’s box because of the high probability of a emotional connection with the lover. The thing about what you call “romantic love” is that it intently focuses ones attention on the beloved of the moment. As Ellie says “But it is hard to feel that you aren’t number one to the person that you see that way. When all is said and done, the pain can be more about reciprocity than jealousy. But it can still be toxic”.
If I see my partner as the love of my life, I do indeed want her to be happy. I do not, however, accept that for her to be happy, I must be in pain. You say ” Perhaps most importantly, people playing with non-monogamy need to acknowledge the worth of their partners’ other relationships. There’s a reason behind the relationship. It meets some need. It has the potential to bring enormous growth as well as pleasure to the partner. Isn’t that what poly’s all about?”. I say, why have what you call a “primary relationship” at all? What makes it primary?
Everyone you interact with brings something to you (good or bad, there are lessons learned).

Post Script: As I think about this somemore, I feel what makes a Primary relationship is a “unique” connection between two people. A connection special enough to perhaps even last a life time. But LOVE my dear, aye, there’s the rub. I may say I love this person or that person in my life (parent, mate, sibling, child, friend) but none of the feelings I label as love feel the same. If I LOVE a lover, I think the feeling of love crosses into the territory pf your mate (who has a right to expect your love since you chose to be with him/her). If you are with your mate/primary partner for a reason other than love, than you are doing everyone an injustice. Life is way to short to fuck with peoples heads.

I’m aware of no poly edict that says you can have sex with someone else but not love; on the contrary, to me, poly is mostly about love (check out polyamory.org). I want my partner to be with me because, all things and all people considered, she chooses to be with me, not because she’s trapped into a Rule that says she is not allowed to have a particular emotional response to anyone else. Still, jealousy and insecurity are facts of many people’s psychological makeup, and when those trump the desire for the partner to be the happiest they can possibly be, poly makes no sense, and they’re better off finding someone who can only be with one partner at a time.

Sorry to be unclear. I wasn’t suggesting that Tristan’s excellent book called for that rule. Instead, I’ve seen individual poly relationships where that was the rule. :) –aag

I have read the book, loved it. Already suggested it to a poly lover to read, as well.

Nowhere in Tristan’s book does it say that ‘NO LOVE” is a Rule. It does say that in some poly situations a couple may make that rule, in others, they don’t. I must admit, I can see it both ways. I have been in both kinds of situations. Each has its positives and its negatives.

For the longest time I’ve believed that love is not limited resource; it can’t be directed to a singluar person (wife, girlfriend, husband, lover).

The heart has a mind of its own; it gives and receives from the sources it can identify - from the connections in our lives. It does not easily accept the artificial boundaries that our “mind” or our religion or our socially accepted practices places on it.

How is my love for a “wife” different from my love of my “child” - or a friend whom I care deeply about. It is caring for them; it is helping them grow and develop; it is protecting them when possible and supporting them when it’s required.

Of course, with some individuals there are physical boundaries to the relationship - like the parent/child relationship. But for all others, the self-imposed physical restrictions on the manifestions of the heart are, in the long run, a denial of those connections.

There are different levels and/or types of love. IMO, there truly are.

And in a monogamous relationship, such love is dismissed (or hopefully accepted) as a crush…

I’m not poly, but if I were I could see myself falling in love with my lover. I’m very picky about who I’m attracted to so I’m halfway there before things begin anyway.

Complex thing, this human heart.

Polly love is extremely complex - I’ve accepted that I am still far too selfish a lover to share, though that may change as I continue to grow and mature. ^_^

I’ve recently gone in a poly direction ( well, I always was, but now have more of a primary relationship with someone who works in the same industry but isn’t a client at all finally), and I’m learning this. Good post, you should ad a poly tag.

So true.
The heart wants what it wants. It’s often foolish, blind and dumb. Sometimes it brings joy but pain in equal measure. I think they all have their worth, but in the final equation, trying to dictate to emotion is like trying to ensnare the wind.

Primaries and secondaries etc aren’t the only approaches - Violet Gordon-Woodhouse lived happily with four husbands - I think sometimes I’d like to too -

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/12/21/reviews/971221.21goreaut.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

PS The book in question is great reading if love music and unconventional lives… :)

Well my dear AAG, you’ve opened up a can of worms here that may not go away for awhile. Reading the comments above, I think of the problem I have with this word “love”. It is ambiguous, used to describe many feelings.

JCnNowhereville says “How is my love for a “wife” different from my love of my “child” - or a friend whom I care deeply about. It is caring for them; it is helping them grow and develop; it is protecting them when possible and supporting them when it’s required.” I appreciate his point of view, but for me (I do have friends, children and a lover), there is a distinct difference I feel for each of them. I do wish for all of them long life and prosperity (thanks Mr. Spock) as well as health, LOVE, and robust fulfilling sex. I will be there to help if needed in any way I can. I do not however, wish to spoon or nuzzle my friends or my children as I would my lover in the comfort of our bed (or any other place/time). The issue for me isn’t monogamy or multiple lovers. Rather your poly posting again begs the question what truly does make a primary relationship for someone who truly LOVES more than one person. The relationship value that is my base value at this time in my life is “don’t do to me what you don’t want me doing to you”. If my lover were to say she was attracted to other men and wanted to jump their bones, I could perfectly well understand this. If she said she wanted to have sex with partners she would be emotionally open to, I’d question my place in the mix. What distinguishes our relationship from any other where she has an emotional investment. Love her I may, wish her all happiness I do, but I will not be reduced to a roommate or fuck buddy by her emotional connection to others. Rubbing some skin doesn’t threaten me, rubbing some hearts does.

I enjoyed this post and the interesting comments it has stirred. Neither my wife or I consider ourselves poly, she does “love” her play partner(s). In fact, for her she needs to feel a connection at some level in order to play with another person. This has, at least for one play friend, has over time turned into a love for him.

However, that love is one of a close friend, regardless that they share much more then close “vanilla” friends would. We’ve come to understand that there are many levels of love. As Charles stated, there is love for children, for parents, for siblings, for friends, and of course for a life partner. Love varies in its degree and intensity, as well as the difference between romantic love, love/lust, and for lack of a better term, “commitment love” or the deep love one has for their primary significant other.

Lettuce has found that she can lover her friends, and at times even feel some romantic love for a lover, but it never achieves the level of love she has for me as her life-long, primary love.

The issue we’ve seen and been through ourselves in the past is distinguishing those different levels of love from each other. It takes patience and a lot of open communication to reach an understanding with each other.

Poly love, which I would define as equal love between equal partners, would not work for us. We’re simply not built to share that highest level of love, trust, commitment, etc. We hold our relationship primary and above all else. And with that understanding and commitment to each other, we feel better suited to allow feelings to flow more freely.

I’m not putting well into words all my thoughts surrounding this, but I don’t want to turn a comment into a post. :-)

I don’t consider poly love to be equal love between equal partners.

Fascinating post, aag. I would love to be in a situation where my primary and life-long (?) partner was not threatened by my attraction to another man, let alone by any emotional connection. Alas… that is not the case.

Very interesting topic of discussion. Poly relationships are complex. Communication and understanding are key. Each relationship does fill a different need. I joke that if I took the qualities I loved most about each of them, I’d have the perfect man. LOL.

And it is definitely possible to love more than one person at the same time in a romantic way. An open heart can possess a great deal of love.

I love each of my lovers and I think the sex is that much greater because of it.