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Essin’ Em wrote about our meeting here. Go have a look. She called me a “legend.” I’m blushing, hard.
******
It’s a conversation I’ve chanced to have several times recently. Various circumstances bring the topic around to break-ups, and whether or not it’s possible for someone to break up a relationship.
Here’s how the story goes: Partners meet, then after some appropriate (or not so appropriate) interval become a couple. Months or years into their relationship they decide to practice non-monogamy — or at least one of them makes that decision. Multiple relationships ensue, and before long someone decides that a secondary relationship needs to become the primary one.
I’ve seen it play out in different ways. A man steps out of his marriage to slake a need for sex and companionship, eventually leaving his wife for a new partner. A couple starts swinging only to have one partner convinced that the other prefers someone else. A woman dating more than one man adds a new partner to the mix; she finally comes to the conclusion that she wants to focus on the new partner to the exclusion of one or more of the established ones.
Convention wisdom suggests that the new partner, the interloping partner, is the one at fault for ruining the original relationship. If that person hadn’t interfered, they say, the original relationship would have flourished.
I reject this theory.
Perhaps I’m too apt to believe that people do things for their own reasons independent of the actions of others, but I cannot accept that a strong relationship could be broken by an extraneous partner. If a third party is involved in the break up of a relationship, in my way of thinking, it was ready to die anyhow.
If in the future I’m left in preference for a newer woman (or man, or couple, or WoW, or Madden, or Border Collie puppy, or whatever), I won’t blame anyone.
But myself.
So…please correct me if I’m wrong?
All of the responsibility is with the person who makes the choice. Being more or less attractive than someone else just happens. Desire is in the eye of the beholder.
I’d say it’s anyone’s fault *but* the interloping party. After all, it’s random chance that it’s *that* interloping party in particular. Surely if they hadn’t come along, another interloping party would have taken their place.
It’s not comfortable to think of one as interchangeable for another, but truly, I believe at some point we become that way (particularly as an interloping party).
Dead right, AAG. It takes two to tango. And you have to have your dance card ready.
(Dance card? WTF am I talking about? I’m delirious. I blame it on Massive Cum Buildup.)
A relationship fails because of its own issues, a person leaves because of his or her own choices/issues… No one walking into it necessarily has anything to do with it other than bringing something different or needed to the other(s), which could bring perspective, changes, and so forth to the original partners. I am in a unique position to have seen this with my own open relationships and those of friends in the past year and a half…
I agree with what you said about if a break-up involves a third person then that relationship was ready to die anyways. Strong relationships don’t just end spontaneously. Sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don’t, so it can seen sudden, but there has been already been decisions made about what could or will happen.
I don’t agree with you saying it would be your fault, then, if you were left for someone else. It’s the choice of the one who left, so if blame needs to be placed, it would be on them.
You are absolutely correct of course.
But… being the third party in one of those deeply sucks. It is one of the hot-wire issues of poly, that you could become the excuse or lever or opportunity for a lot of pain. Not your fault, but still, very much unpleasant.
Been there, done that. Will try very hard never to do it again.
Wish there was some litmus test available that would prove somebody really truly was poly, not just restless. But there isn’t.
I agree, it’s not the third party’s fault. However, I think it’s not quite right to conciously interfere in a relationship. You know, going for a married man, knowing he is married, or similar.
Agree to a point, when a third makes an appearnace, it is obvious that everything is not right with the relationship. “Ready to die”, I am not sure, but in need of attention, definitely.
However, the third party knowingly encouraging a split has it’s own issues.
I agree. A secondary nearly whisked me away from my primary, but only because my primary relationship was under duress at that time. In the end, sense wore out over lust and I made the right choice, then and now I still feel I made the right choice in staying with my primary.
Lust and infatuation fade and are suddenly not as bright as true deep love. But by then, you’re screwed.
I agree with Steven. If blame is going around, I think the third party is low man on the totem pole. However, I do believe that the presence of a third party can encourage and/or make it easier for a person in a trouble relationship to give up, rather than work on the primary relationship. All relationships go through ups and downs and when two people are going through a down, I don’t think a third person can encourage giving up and remain perfectly free from blame.
it’s great to have theories about all this. ANYTHING can be justified, if you want it bad enough. in the heat of rejection, finding inner peace in such matters turns out to be whatever soothes the hurt, not what makes the most “logical” sense.
I wouldn’t necessarily blame myself; I’m more likely to blame the one who dumped me. But the truth would probably be that both of us were to blame.
Things happen. I don’t live a non-monogamous lifestyle so it’s hard for me to speak to the dynamic, but it takes far too much energy to be angry and frustrated over something you can’t control — making your theory that people do things for their own reasons one a much better option.
the only people that bear any responsibility in a relationship are the two that are in it. If one decides to end the relationship to begin another, then they should take responsibility for their decision. Even if the 3rd party came into it with the intention of breaking up their relationship, ultimately it is still the fault of the one who left, not the one who was left for.
People should take responsibility for their actions, period. There is always a choice.
Beware placing blame before anything happens. Always blaming yourself sounds like… depression. And it sounds like you are entering relationships half-expecting the ending.
Relationships and their endings all are different, if for no other reason than they involve different people.
No, I don’t enter relationships half-expecting the ending.
I enter relationships FULLY expecting the ending.
:)
Sorry but if someone cheats on you, you are not to blame. The person cheating is 100% to blame. Despite rationalization attempts there simply is no justification.
A relationship may sour, the partner may change into someone that a person may no longer want to be with. There are valid justifications for the ending of a relationship but never for the breaking of vows, either formal or informal.
I don’t think it’s the interloping partners fault (generally, on occasion, it totally can be- if they’re otherwise manipulative or super-unhealthy), but no. Relationships grow and they shrink, and it really doesn’t have to be anyones fault.
It is easier for the left person to react in horror against the person who is not their partner- after all, you don’t really want to demonize people you sleep with (unless that’s your thing), but if it’s someone you don’t know, it’s a lot easier to blame them.
There is also the scenario where a third party gets so interested that they make an honest attempt to break up the relationship with the primary.
Even in very subtle instances it can be very powerful. Think of the coworker who constantly points out the negative. If you spend enough time with that person, you begin to believe the negatives of the job as well. Same thing with relationships.
So while I see where your generalization is coming from, I believe that each scenario is probably considerably more complex than that. So in the case of the example above, I believe the third party probably doesn’t bear too much of the blame. They are acting out of self-interest. But in that case, you wouldn’t bear it either. It would rest primarily on the shoulders of your partner breaking it off to be with the third party. They allowed themselves to be led. Some people are extremely manipulative and some are extremely susceptible.
For reference, just look how many people got ripped off by Nigerian scammers. I’d say they had a pretty solid relationship with their cash, but were wooed by the potential, even when the circumstances were ridiculously absurd.
Agreed.
You are perfectly on point about this one. A lot of people want to blame the “other” person because it helps them retain respect for the partner that wronged them.
Still, I think there is a serious ethical problem with being that “other” person. No, you may not have any obligations to the original relationship or pact of fidelity, but it involves participating in this lie. Even just thinking of your partner’s partner as another human being should make a reasonable and ethical person realize that getting involved with a cheater isn’t cool.
Of course that doesn’t stop anyone :)
I do believe that relationships can fail because of both parties, not just one. Someone may leave a relationship because both of us failed.
But, as my therapist said, “You didn’t have to find out your wife was having an affair to know that your marriage was in trouble,” and “She showed a lot of courage to have her affair.” The latter was much harder to accept than the former, but I have accepted it because it’s true.
After a sexless year with said wife, I too drifted, and she was not able to handle it — for which I don’t blame her, some of what I was doing was my trying to force her to end the marriage — and she asked for a divorce.
Having said all this, I am very convinced that people very rarely cheat on a satisfying relationship, particularly sexually. But again, the reason for it may not be a simple one, like one person withdrawing from the other, and the other bugging out. The withdrawal might have been caused by one or more reasons.
Clearly, this is not easy for me to describe. But neither are relationships.
I totally agree with you, AA. If a relationship is strong to begin with, it certainly can sustain the couple having secondary partners. I have been in an open marriage for 3 years and it totally works. Communication, is, of course key! Besides, conventional wisdom is just that: conventional (and conformist). Not the sort of sapience Sadie subscribes to. Nor you, I have gathered…
xo~Sadie confessionsfrommyopenmarriage.blogspot.com/
I agree completely! My marriage ended in divorce after I cheated on my hubby. But the cheating was the symptom not the cause.
The real cause: One orgasm in three years.
http://sexnique.blogspot.com/2008/07/bad-sex-ruined-my-marriage.html
I partially reject your statement that ..”I cannot accept that a strong relationship could be broken by an extraneous partner.”
I usually agree with it.. I mostly agree with it.. I want to totally agree with it.. BUT I can’t!
You see… and of course, you know… there are so many dimensions to relationships, sex being just one of them.
But, if you have a “strong relationship” that is not perfect, that does not meet every one of your needs, then, there is that possibility that one little crack can slowly expand to a bigger crack. Eventually, the bigger crack makes it clear that the relationship is no longer strong, and then it can be broken.
If an “extra” partner (whether he/she be a sex partner or just a bowling partner or just a friend) somehow meets a need that is exposed in that initial crack, then they might somehow begin to meet other needs as well.
Of course, it depends on how “devoted” you are to your main relationship spouse/partner, and also to your personal moral code or mores…
One last thing- from a man’s side- if the spouse/lover is always devoted and sexually attentive to the man’s needs (I don’t mean subservient), then there is much less chance of the man straying.
All relationships have ups and downs, and an instigator can influence a relationship to it’s ruin. Betrayal cannot happen unless there is someone to do it with.
Even strong relationships have their low points and a word or nudge at the right time can ruin what would have been a good relationship.
The person who breaks the trust and cheats is guilty of betrayal, however a sleezeball who helps things along to the ruin of a relationship is just scum as well.
My opinion.
Wow, for once I can actually comment based on experience.
My father was a serial adulterer, married young and then dated many, many women afterwards. He had a sixteen year relationship with my mother that culminated and ended with my birth. My mother used to try avoiding saying anything negative about him because she thought it would harm my self-esteem. The fact is that she’d loved him and he’d been a close friend before and during their relationship but the man is an irresponsible coward. He wasn’t honest with his wife and he used her as an excuse not to see my mother or his offspring (I’m the only one I’m aware of that was… illegitimate). To this day I do not know if she condoned his decision not to support or see me. I can say that my father was the one who instigated his multiple extra-marital relationships.
I will also say that I largely keep this information to myself because it is embarassing even if it shouldn’t be and it hurts me very deeply some days.
This probably isn’t very helpful to you but it’s at least an example of what you were thinking about, even if it’s not within the realms of an honest polyamorous relationship.
I agree that the two people in any given relationship are ultimately responsible for its condition, and that different people handle that responsibility with wildly varying amounts of thought and care. That being said, I do think that a third party can be a contributing factor in the demise of the original relationship, in that some people find it easier to focus on the excitement of a new partner rather than deal with whatever serious issues are facing their primary relationship.
I think that a conscientious “secondary” will be acutely aware of their potential as an escape hatch and compassionately nudge their new partner to address problems in their primary relationship if it seems like they are running away from them.
I agree that the problems of a relationship are the not the responsibility of the third party. My marital problems existed long, long before I took on any lovers. They have helped me to feel better about myself and my life; I would not choose to be with someone who encouraged me to self-destruct, but if I did, that would still be my responsibility, right or wrong.
I don’t agree that you are to blame if your partner strays. You may be. Or perhaps it is 100% their own issue. There are too many variations possible. Shit happens. Which is, I think, what you were saying.